Morning Oppo

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
03/30/2015 at 09:15 • Filed to: Morning Struggles

Question in the form of political art below.

It seems that nowadays I wake up every morning with something exactly like this on my mind. Whether not all that stress and loads of debt(varies between people of course) is worth that piece of paper saying we've accomplished something, or if it's just a social norm and we're all just expected to do it and everything will just be dandy.

No matter what, this seems to be my future. Hell, it may(and probably will) be worse than what this picture describes..But at least I have my youth and health or something, because that's the most important thing at the end of the day right?? -_-

DISCUSSION (50)

CB > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:21

I know the feeling. Then again, I only owe $16k so far, so it's not as bad.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:25

Literally speaking, the lifetime earnings bump expected for today's graduates is still in the seven figure range over someone with just a high school diploma. The only way you lose in this scenario is if you drop out, or spend more than five years getting a non-technical degree at a private school.

The only thing that's changed between our generation and our parents' generation is that a college degree, by virtue of being more common, is no longer a gateway to a high-paying job. My parents both started jobs in computer fields with essentially irrelevant degrees (education, biology) because they had used computers and that was really all you needed to be better than the other candidates. Now, you have to stand out in other ways, which is why every other kid in high school seems to be coding nowadays.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > CB
03/30/2015 at 09:25

I don't even know how much I owe now, I really don't wanna know. I only know that it's gonna screw me for years. And whether or not I have anything to show for it will hurt a lot.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:25

Nearly half of my income is going to paying down educational expenses (a private in-family loan and a bunch of Perkins and Staffordey goodness). And I majored in a STEM field! Even there, it'll take me another 5 years at current rates to pay down everything.
Credentialism leading to an educational class distinction leading to runaway expense - it's a hell of a thing.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:26

All I'm going to say on this mater is: I'm glad I graduated 15 years ago. From a state college.

505Turbeaux > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:29

When I went, UCONN was $2500 a semester, living on campus. I went, I was all in at $26000 in debt and I paid that shiz off quick. Interest is a bear, and I am not using my education for a damn thing except to say I have a goddamn piece of paper. Kids need to be smart, only go if you have to or go get that thing I prize the most in my employees, experience.

And for Christs sake dont go to a 70K a year college unless you have a whole lot of financial aid and are going to use it for something high paying!

CB > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:29

I recommend figuring it out and finding out a payment plan. It's something you should know sooner rather than later, as much as it sucks.

E. Julius > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:30

Tough stuff to think about indeed. Just remember that debt can be overcome, and that it doesn't necessarily mean you can't live the life you want. You might have to wait a little while for some things, which is tough, but even still it doesn't mean you have to live the life of a pauper until you pay it off.

My sister (who is 28) went well into five figures for her graduate degree, but her and her husband still bought a house, stay in England for three weeks every Christmas, own a fairly new car, have healthy retirement savings, and she's in the process of starting her own business. As long as you graduate so you can get a decently paying job and you learn how to manage your money you will be fine : )

Milky > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:31

3 words: Private. Art. School …. believe me I know the struggle. You just have to know in the end you'll have better job opportunities and will make more money. I graduated a year ago and will be paying for ever, but things all ready look good.

E. Julius > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:33

Agree with CB. The only way this stuff will haunt you is if you ignore and don't plan well. If you know how much you'll owe you can get an idea of what sort of expense it will represent when you're making money and you can budget for it just like any other bill. That being said, don't go too overboard because it's easy to drive yourself crazy imagining all sorts of different scenarios.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
03/30/2015 at 09:34

There really isn't much hope is there..

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
03/30/2015 at 09:34

Must be nice..

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:35

Paid off my student debt in six years without having to live in my parent's basement, or eat ramen for every meal. (disclaimer: I ate a lot of ramen anyway, because I love ramen...)

Jonathan Harper > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:36

The more you dwell on this, the less likely you are to be successful and overcome the debt and live your life the way you want it.

E. Julius > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
03/30/2015 at 09:36

It's not like this is impossible to do now…

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 505Turbeaux
03/30/2015 at 09:40

I may be screwed then I'm guessing..

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > CB
03/30/2015 at 09:41

College may have effectively ruined my car enthusiastic future in a shotgun slug.

djmt1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:43

Man, Student loans are bloody terrifying. I went out of my way to make sure I owe as little as possible and the end result is I only owe £9,000 in contrast to my friends who wanted "a true uni experience" who owe up to £47,000!

£47,000 before you have even started considering I have questioned whether or not it was worth it, I can't even begin to think how they are handling this.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > E. Julius
03/30/2015 at 09:43

I've been going crazy for a year now, the insanity will consume me.

505Turbeaux > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:45

probably!

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > E. Julius
03/30/2015 at 09:45

It's a lot harder than it used to be. I did it on a retail sales income and some pathetic photography income (I think my best year was $2600 from that endeavor...). Cost of living is higher, health care costs are WAY up, the initial debt amounts are higher (though interest rates are often lower), and entry-level salaries haven't increased much at all. There's also more employment competition due to higher college graduation rates, older workers staying employed longer, and unemployed workers with equivalent experience. If you Know The Right People you'll always get a decent job at Uncle Mortie's Firm, but if you don't, good fucking luck making enough money to pay off the loans, rent an apartment and eat every day.

yamahog > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:45

Woah there. Take a breath. You can be ok. It's possible. I had a whole huge comment but kinja eated it :(

Get my email from Travis and we can chat personally if you want.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jonathan Harper
03/30/2015 at 09:45

But this semester is going to end horribly for me and screw me in ways that I've only had nightmares of. And I don't think there's much of anything I can do to save myself and fix it even if I try and I have been for weeks.

I just don't know what the hell to do.

CB > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 09:49

Hey, it probably hasn't. Just need to get creative with your finances. Get a plan down on paper and budget things out. It helped my worries, so it might help you.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 505Turbeaux
03/30/2015 at 09:57

Yay..

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > yamahog
03/30/2015 at 09:57

Travis doesn't have my email though. You could PM me on the Facebook if you like, I'm apparently really easy to find.

Oh wait, I could just text him my email, ninja edit fail. -_-

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > CB
03/30/2015 at 09:58

It's worth any shots I have left.

E. Julius > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
03/30/2015 at 09:59

I know it's tougher, but I also know a lot of people who are about to graduate or who recently graduated. Only a small portion of them (maybe 10–15%) are in the classic "living in their parents' basement" scenario. Most everybody else, even those who went to subpar schools or who got lame degrees, are at least getting by. Sure you might not be able to do it on a retail income anymore, but it's such a fucking lie that if you don't go work for a hedge fund or go to medical school that you won't be able to lead an adult life after you graduate. People just need to learn how to manage their money.

CB > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 10:02

Hey man, chin up. You got this.

E. Julius > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 10:06

It's hard to think of how you can overcome something like this, but please believe me when I say I don't know a single person whose life has been ruined by student loan debt. It's not fun, but at the end of the day it's just another bill. You can budget for bills, and even if you're in a situation where you're income doesn't allow you to comfortably make payments there are options such as income based repayment plans. Just focus on finishing school, and whatever happens when you're done you can develop a plan to deal with it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > CB
03/30/2015 at 10:15

It's just that I'm on the verge of being academically suspended for a year because of my poor grades this semester for a year, and as much as the school may think it's the right course of action, it's going to screw me over in so many ways I can't cope with. At this point I have no trouble telling anyone that because it's inevitable and everyone will find out sooner or later.

All my sleepless nights and mental stress and effort and I've got nothing to show for it. I forever curse my extremely slow learning habits and damn my inability to keep up with others to the deepest depths of hell.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > E. Julius
03/30/2015 at 10:16

As I explained to someone else, I'm on the verge of being academically suspended for a year because of my incredibly poor grades this semester no matter how hard I try.

Now what? They say your life starts at college, mines about to end on that basis.

yamahog > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 10:19

No worries, whichever works! I have lunch around 11 so barring a firestorm at the office I'll try to find you on FB.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > E. Julius
03/30/2015 at 10:27

I'll agree with the comment about money management. We've been lied to for so long by the establishment about "what success looks like" that no one even understands how to live a non-extravagant lifestyle anymore...

The secondary problem is that many college grads, especially those who went to schools that have poor work-placement assistance (most of the schools in the US), will end up with a retail job straight out of college because it's what they can get without experience or proper networking connections, and will end up buried in debt they can't afford to pay.

College has become the new high school, and that means the jobs you can get with a college degree and no connections or experience are the same jobs you used to be able to get with a GED and no experience or connections... except these jobs still pay like you got a state-funded education and don't owe a private institution multiple-thousands of dollars for an education that's barely better than what other nations expect you to have BEFORE you go to university... (yes, this did apparently degrade into a general education rant... jeez, i need to dial it back here a sec...)

*deep breath*

yes, I agree, people need to take some fucking responsibility, (as noted above K-Roll really SHOULD know how much he owes so far and already know what he should be expected to have to pay per month...), but the industrial financial complex doesn't want us know these things so it can continue to profit from our ignorance, so it suppresses those messages of responsibility whenever possible in the media, culture, and even education... I guess I'm being as bad everyone else who's trying to point the finger away from the "victim"... I just hate asshole predators.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > yamahog
03/30/2015 at 10:33

You know my name, it's spelled with a K. Last name is the same as a golfer who crashed his Cadillac and was found to be a cheater off the court with the ladies, I think you know who he is.

E. Julius > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 10:33

What has happened in the past does not dictate what will happen going forward. There are plenty of people who have made the best of their situation and raised their grades after some poor performance. In my own case, a lack of good study habits and poor discipline going to class left my freshman year GPA below a 3.0. After slowly learning these skills over two years, it's now sitting at a 3.5.

If you really have put in your best effort and your situation is not improving, perhaps you need more than what you can provide on your own. There are many people in your life who can help you work through these things, there are probably even people at your school who get paid to help. Talk to these people, it's much easier than going it alone.

Sometimes people can give you new ideas about how to tackle certain situations, or even just discussing what you worry about can make you feel better. Both of these lead to better outcomes.

Jonathan Harper > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 10:34

So...what? You're just going to stop? That's no way to deal with a problem.

Think about what your life would be life if you just quit school forever. Probably not awesome. Just keep trying.

There were more than a few times when I thought I would be better off not finishing school, and yeah, I failed a bunch of classes. It took me 5 years but I finished.

Sn210 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
03/30/2015 at 10:37

state school FTW!

E. Julius > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
03/30/2015 at 10:44

I definitely agree with everything in your first paragraph. Hopefully with the economy improving there will be more avenues to superior employment such that people will be able to pay for the educations they received. I feel as though we're at a time of transition, where the expense of college and the new realities of the labor market represent a totally different world that the educational system hasn't adapted to yet. There need to be more avenues for post–secondary education, and these types of qualifications need to be accorded more respect.

On top of it all, as you said there is a vicious cycle propagated by the financial system, where guaranteed loans push up college costs and students are essentially given no other options. I think it's despicable that loans supposedly funded by the government for the public good have interest rates greater than the rate of inflation.

My hope is that in the next few years business leaders will adapt and no longer require the bullshit credential that Chad got by showing up hungover to class three days a week to do a job that will be 90% on the job training. If we could see reform in student loan policy and greater options for tertiary education in addition to that, that would be great.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > E. Julius
03/30/2015 at 10:52

I'm below a 2.0GPA...I'm just at a loss. I refuse myself from getting more than help than I already have because at this point I think it's just too damn much help to the point that I'm dependent on just about everyone and I don't think that's good even for the long term. I'm failing just about all my classes save for one, and am expected to come out with at least a 2.0 this semester or I get the Ax in about 5 weeks. What more could I possibly do that isn't ace every damn thing plus my finals for 5 weeks.

I'm just at a total loss for what to do, a road with a big ass pothole in the middle; it's Michigan so it makes sense.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jonathan Harper
03/30/2015 at 10:54

I just don't know what I want to do or how to do it at this point, I'm just lost! It would take me seemingly 7-10 years to graduate in my head..

Jonathan Harper > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 10:58

GTFO of your own head fool.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jonathan Harper
03/30/2015 at 11:02

I'm trying to stay positive, I really am, but it's getting more and more difficult every day.

E. Julius > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 11:05

Typically the understanding is that people help you when you need them, and when your situation is improved you will help them or somebody else when they need it. I'm sure there are people in your life who still have much more to offer you, and whatever help you received would be better in the long term than throwing your hands up and not doing anything. Regardless, you have to develop a plan.

Even if it's not feasible for you to stay in school, you can still ask yourself "what do I do from here?" If that's not a question you feel you can answer, ask somebody else. There is always a course of action you can take to improve your situation, no matter how bad it may seem, and that course of action is never "do nothing".

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > E. Julius
03/30/2015 at 11:12

I guess...I just wish, why does it have to be this way? I don't want this to happen and I'm hopeless to stop it from happening.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 11:15

College has done itself in.

Rising costs, and now federalized student loans have basically been funneling money into the colleges, mostly administrators and tenure-faculty, not associate faculty as much, and sure as heck not professional staff.

All on the backs of the students' futures, and when they can't pay, the taxpayers otherwise.

Plus with the lack of job-ready training, and sociological indoctrination overload, they are becoming less effective at educating in some sectors, while costs skyrocket.

It has become apparent to me that the paradigm that most people still adhere to, of automatically and tacitly going to college directly out of high-school, is WRONG for most people.

Coinciding college with the time of leaving one's parents households, is too chaotic, socially, and harms most students' focus. I know it did mine when I was in college.

Most students have little knowledge of what they REALLY want to do, or what it entails... because high school isn't any better at preparing students for real life than college is.

Most 18-22 year olds don't know enough about how the world works, or how the job market works, or what they REALLY want to do with their life, and the whole implication of what that means, and they have little to no full-time experience in the industry they want to go into.

It is getting more and more plain to me that it may be a better idiom if high school were much different than it is, and if after that, several years were spent getting acclimated to responsibility and life outside of the parents' household, and getting acclimated to the full-time work world.

THEN, when people KNOW what they want, and know what is required, get further higher education and directed training, and a degree, when they have a PURPOSE, and motivation to do better than just "get through".

Accumulating that much debt should not be just a tacit reaction to graduating from high school, and just expecting to go to college, because it is automatically expected.

I wish I had done a lot of things differently now, than I knew and did then, and now I can't afford to go back for a do-over.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
03/30/2015 at 11:20

So college really is just there to screw us over because of the almost social norm and "requirement" to go there..And on a larger scale it's screwing the economy to the point of another potential economic crash in the future..FML

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/30/2015 at 11:37

On a macro point of view, there is a lot wrong.

On a micro point of view, as it pertains to you specifically, this is not the end, nor should it be, and what is wrong on the macro scale isn't reason enough for you to quit and hinder yourself, it is just something that needs to be looked at as you eventually succeeding in spite of that.

"Buying high, and selling low" to use an economic metaphor, just means you lock in your losses. Don't give up on what you've committed to, it will just put you at further disadvantage. At this point, re-evaluation of your conditions, and re-approaching the problems with more effective solutions is likely what is required, and when that happens, you'll be in a better position.

Failure isn't nearly the problem that quitting after a failure is. Failure is an opportunity to learn far more than an instructor will teach you, and you haven't failed yet... the semester isn't over.

Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly, and expecting a different result.

I speak from experience when I say, that is much easier said than to avoid doing it.

But if what is not working now is holding you back... you may need to re-think your approach to the problem in order to solve it.

Maybe that does or doesn't save this semester, by re-approaching your current classes, but maybe it gets you another shot in the fall to make up for it, or re-trying over the summer.

And if there are aspects of your life outside of class that are getting in the way... perhaps that needs to be addressed, also. I know that from experience, as well.

This isn't easy, but it doesn't have to be for the worse, when all is said and done.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > CB
03/30/2015 at 12:19

I'm lucky, I have a college fund. But its through the government and I lost a lot of it in the housing crisis. I only have enough for 5 more quarters. So out of the 75k I'm paying for school, 25k if it is coming from that fund . So for now I have no college debt, but once I have my degree I'll owe 50k

CB > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
03/30/2015 at 12:58

You working through school as well? If you can afford the time, it's not a bad idea.